Subject : Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:05 am
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From another forum.....FYI
This is a little mind blowing. It says that audiologists are making
$150,000 a year.
Now if they make $1,500 per hearing aid, that means that they only have
to sell "2 HEARING AIDS A WEEK" to make that king of money. Of course
there are office expenses to consider. But, $150,000 come on.... And
remember, that most of that is from older people on fixed incomes.
- - -
2004 Salary Survey of Audiologists
Six-Figure Earners
For audiologists earning more than $100,000 a year, the average salary
was $141,495. The median salary was $265,434. The number of
audiologists earning six figures declined this year by seven; their
salaries were also about $16,500 less.
Years of experience did not seem to account for increased salary with
this group. Although the one audiologist with less than five years of
experience did earn the least, with $100,000 a year, those working more
than 20 years had the second-lowest average salary, at $131,036.
However, the fact that an audiologist working less than five years in
the field placed in the six-figure range is an improvement over last
year, when no new audiologists averaged more than $100,000 in salary
earnings.1 Veteran audiologists were not so lucky, however-those
reporting this year earned about $17,500 less than last year's
respondents.
People with 11-15 years of experience earned the most, at $168,100,
followed by audiologists practicing 16-20 years, who earned $143,111,
and those working six to 10 years, who earned $137,600. These groups
all earned substantially more than the 2003 respondents reported.
Salary by Job Title
The most lucrative job title was that of private practice owner.
Audiologists owning their own practices brought home $166,591. Their
salaries increased from last year, when the average salary was
$154,650. In 2003, private practice owners were edged out by
independent contractors as the best paid audiologists by job title.1
For the 2004 survey, employees of otolaryngologists had the second
highest salaries, at $140,000 a year.
Being an independent contractor also can be financially
rewarding-four audiologists holding this title earned an average of
$132,250. However, earnings were down from last year, when independent
contractors earned an average of more than $158,000 a year.1
Faculty members and managers or directors of rehab also fared well,
with salaries of $120,000 and $111,000 respectively. The one faculty
member responding to the survey earned more than the one college
program director who responded-this person earned $103,000.
Rounding out the list of those earning more than $100,000 were
employees of private practice audiologists, earning $108,000, and an
audiologist on staff at a hospital who earned $105,756. Employees of
private practice audiologists earned the same as last year.1
By work setting, audiologists working in otolaryngology offices beat
out those in audiology private practices, $171,667 vs. $157,154.
Workers in both settings reported salaries much higher than those given
last year.
One person who reported working for a contract service agency earned
$143,000. Salaries correlated to other settings as follows: industry,
$116,667; academia, $113,500; nonprofit agencies, $110,800; rehab
hospitals, $110,000; acute care hospitals, $102,919.
Salary by Job Responsibility
By job responsibility, those earning more than $100,000 primarily
dispense amplification products-20 people indicated this duty when
filling out the survey. This group earned an average of $152,550. Only
people performing balance or vestibular duties earned more, with an
average of $271,500. Salaries for dispensers earning six-figure
salaries increased substantially, by $15,500.
Ten administrators responded, with an average annual salary of
$143,900. They, too, earned substantially more than administrators
reported last year, to the tune of $15,900 more.1
Those diagnosing hearing loss and rehabilitating patients had fairly
similar salaries-people who primarily handled diagnostic tasks at
work earned $118,973, while those providing rehab services netted
$110,000 on average. Audiologists who primarily work with diagnosing
hearing loss earned substantially more than last year, while those
providing rehabilitation services earned much less, according to the
2004 survey.1 Industrial audiologists ($100,000) and university
teachers and researchers ($101,500) were even closer in earnings for
this year's report.
Surprisingly, the number of hours worked per week did not have a big
impact on salary. People working more than 35 hours a week earned
$141,599, compared to the average $140,000 earned by part-time workers.
Full-time audiologists completing the survey for 2004 earned about
$9,500 less than respondents last year, closing the gap between these
workers from $25,100 in 2003 to about $1,600 this year.1 Like
audiologists earning less than $100,000 a year, those working less than
35 hours a week saw their salaries increase, while those working more
than 35 hours a week saw their salaries decrease.1
Salary by Region
The largest number of people earning more than $100,000 a year could be
found on the East Coast-10 in the Southeast, and 10 in the Northeast.
Audiologists in northeastern states earned more than their counterparts
farther south, netting $148,000, compared to $125,400.
Though the largest number of high-earning professionals was in the
East, the richest professionals could be found in the West.
Audiologists in the Midwest earned the most, at $169,333, while those
in the Pacific region earned $158,939. The remaining average salaries
by region were $146,375 for audiologists in the Northcentral region,
and $119,000 for audiologists in the Southcentral region.
These numbers reflect shifts in location for six-figure
audiologists-last year, the highest-earning audiologists were in the
Southeast, followed by the Northcentral, Midwest, Pacific, Northeast,
and Southcentral regions.1
By geographic setting, suburban audiologists earned the most, averaging
$149,984. Audiologists in metropolitan areas earned an average of
$138,227, while those in rural settings earned $135,333. Similar to
regional data, data on geographic setting changed from last year, when
rural audiologists earned the most, followed by metropolitan and
suburban audiologists.1
Though men still earned more than women, salaries of high-earning men
and women were much closer than for their counterparts earning less
than $100,000 a year. Twenty-nine men averaged $142,336, while 17 women
had an average salary of $140,058, for a difference of less than
$2,300. Both men and women in this group earned more than their
counterparts last year.1
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:14 am
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Frankly, I don't find these figures shocking. Most of these people are highly educated and spent a lot of money on their education. These figures are not out line with what most medical practicioners earn.
Also I don't know how office expenses figure into these numbers.
And I don't know the source of this info. Ed
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:38 am
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This was just posted on the other Forum. I think the original poster selected only certain data leaving out the entire picture. Sorry I posted the original. Ed
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:39 am
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Something about that previous post didn't ring true, so I looked it up.
That post didn't present the whole picture - just those audiologists
making $100k or more. As Paul Harvey once said, "Here's the rest of the
story!"
http://tinyurl.com/em9zv
http://tinyurl.com/f7hcb
http://tinyurl.com/h8hwk
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:42 am
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Actually,
That is not the complete salary survey article, it is just a fraction of it. The survey was broken down in the several brackets... Basically, the average audiologist was one bracket, and then a focus on Auds in the 6 figure income bracket was the second.
Who ever originally posted the article, failed to mention that. Further more, I think there was only a hand full of 6 figure audiologist within that bracket.
I believe it was a salary survey from the "Advance for Audiologist" magazine. I believe it was published 2-3 years ago. It should not be hard to find, they do a survey annually.
The truth is auds make around 55K on the top end and commonly 30K in the bottom range. So those that live on a fixed income can now breathe easier. Audiologist, on average, still earn around the same as a school teacher.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:46 am
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No Ed,
No need to apologize. I think posting only helps to show something that is often missed. Some folks just do not want to know the complete picture, or refuse to see it.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:52 am
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Well I got into this mess by posting what turned out to be an incomplete post from another forum.
Now, I find that if Audiologists make only an average of $55K to $30K that to me is truly shocking. Too low in the cities with high costs of living. Ed
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Jun 6, 2006 7:55 am
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Just post that complete article...
It should be in there.
But I will do some sniffing for grins.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Jun 6, 2006 8:09 am
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Median annual earnings of audiologists were $51,470 in May 2004. The middle 50 percent earned between $42,160 and $62,210. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $34,990, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $75,990.
According to a 2004 survey by the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association, the median annual salary for full-time certified audiologists who worked on a calendar-year basis, generally 11 or 12 months annually, was $56,000. For those who worked on an academic-year basis, usually 9 or 10 months annually, the median annual salary was $53,000. The median starting salary for certified audiologists with one to three years of experience was $45,000 on a calendar-year basis.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos085.htm
There are tons of other numbers out there. You can bet the audiologist use the high figures to negotiate, and you can bet their future employers use the low figures.
It is just human nature at play.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by Edwincnelson on Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:14 am
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I do think that this article was surveying the salaries, and that bonus money is technically outside that salary structure. So for those working in a bonus structure, the actual money paid out would be higher than these numbers indicate. Still, selling hearing aids is not a good way to get rich.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:53 pm
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No, the article by Advance was based on TOTAL salary... I remember, because I participated in that particular salary survery. I was kinda "featured" if you will, in that survery article.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by MarkSteele on Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:22 pm
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You should be very proud of the excess you have added to the cost of a HA.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:13 pm
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Not sure where that came from? If anything the HOH should feel sorry for any audiologist working for a meager sum. Or at least feel grateful.
DMark, my money did not come strictly from hearing aids, I had to think outside of the box to get it. Een right now, I am developing another company, a very exciting project, that does not include the HOH, ENT, or Audiology family.... but yet much of the knowledge developed/obtained over the years from being in the area of audiology will be needed.
Sort of a Mead Killion kind of thing.
Hope it works...........
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by MarkSteele on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:52 am
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AudBall wrote:
> Not sure where that came from? If anything the HOH should feel sorry for any audiologist working for a meager sum. Or at least feel grateful.
>
> DMark, my money did not come strictly from hearing aids, I had to think outside of the box to get it. Een right now, I am developing another company, a very exciting project, that does not include the HOH, ENT, or Audiology family.... but yet much of the knowledge developed/obtained over the years from being in the area of audiology will be needed.
>
> Sort of a Mead Killion kind of thing.
>
> Hope it works...........
There you go again with inaccurate comparisons.The science of audiology being one thing,and practicing modern audiologists.The latter being funded predominantly by HA sales.But if you want us to feel sorry for someone who has been able to retire early and attempt to further expand his HA business......ok.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:21 pm
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DM
Those that do rely strictly on hearing aids do not earn much, those that rely strictly on diagnostics do not earn much, in essensce those that rely strictly on audiology do not earn much.
That is the sad truth, and that will be the down fall of audiology. I do not know of any dentist that have to own a dental tool mfg company or a physicain/dental office supply/furniture company in order to create wealth. Dental school and audiology school essentially costs the same and requires the same amount of time.
Go figure.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by MarkSteele on Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:13 pm
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Perhaps you could sell dentures to make ends meet.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:44 pm
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I've known some audiologist selling candles, quilts etc for extra money. Perhaps dentures would be better.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:50 am
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I can only add from my personal experience. Only one of the 6 or 7 Audiologists I consulted over 35 years, seemed to be making lots of dough.....she drove a Mercedes S500.(maybe her husband was the source of their opulence.) The other audie's seemed to just be making a fair living.
The reason aids cost a lot is not the fault of the audiologist/dispensers....from what I can see the culprit is the antiquated system of manufacture and retail distribution. This is the unintended consequence of the pervasive government regulations that restrict the sale of aids by only licensed professionals....thereby eliminating the efficiencies of mass over-the-counter sales and choking off innovation of low cost self adjusting aids.
And, under the present system, the efficiencies of mass production and lower per unit R & D cost are not possible.
No...it's not the audiologists that are primarily responsible for high prices, it's the overall government mandated system. Audiologists are just one factor in the cost of aids............... just my opinion Ed
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:07 am
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Ed
I am horrible at math, but if we were to say hearing aids have a 3 x mark up, that is not much compared to a 10 cent fuse at radio shack that retails at 1.75.
Then another example is IEM head phones,
www.sensaphonics.com
The parts are about 30$ for a SHURE E3 IEM, and they sell for 170$.
So while your are correct the system is archiac, I also think it costs A TON to get anything to market. Anything from chicken feed to pencils. Hence the high price on products.
Then when you throw in the fact that every hearing aid one day will need some type of service.... human intervention will be required..... costs go up dramatically.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by HearMe on Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:53 am
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I can tell you that most audiolosts do NOT make $150k a year. I don't make that much and I have a damn good job, I have a doctorate and I'm not complaining about my salary. Perphaps if you have been working for a long time and are in a very successful private practice you would make that much. There are many wesbites that have much more accurate information than that. The average salary is much lower.
And the other thing is, so what if audiologists are making that much money? They work hard for it. You don't go into your ENT office and complain that they are making 6 figures and audiologists go to school for almost just as long as they do. Or you don't go into your optometrists office who have an equivalent degree to audiologists and who on average make much more than audiologists and complain how much they make (or maybe you do, I don't know).
With very rare expections, audiologists are not out to screw their patients. Believe me if people wanted to make a ton of money- audiology would not be the field. We are working with the best technology that is available. Yes, hearing aids are not perfect and they cost a lot....but that is what is currently available based on the state of research and technology. Yes there is a mark up on them- but tell me a product that does not have some sort of mark up on it!
Just know that audiologists work hard for their salary. There is also a distinct difference between a hearing aid dispenser and an audiologist. The field has a code of ethics and most audiologists do follow that code. We are there to help everyone with hearing loss (and balance problems).
Also, keep in mind all audiologists do not sell hearing aids. Salary will differ depending on work environment. Researchers make different amounts than professors than those doing intraoperative monitoring than those working for the government than those in private practice.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by Lou on Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:34 am
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Ed, you didnt think for a second they were going to admit to that.
Im waiting for a repost from audball that audis make 40K.
America Hears LOWERED the prices of thier hearing aids..check the site...
And dont listen to the tripe that America Hears has only one audiologist on staff ..there is 3 and has been 3 on staff there.
Interesting point...America Hears did an adjustment for a Client while he was on a Cruise Ship on vacation and of course the adjustment was free...try that with your corner audiologist
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by HearMe on Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:12 am
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Mean salary: $62k
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/061218/18audio.summary.htm
Audiology mean salary: $62k vs. Optometry mean salary: $98k
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/best_careers_2007/careertable.htm
Go to www.salary.com and type in Audiologist and your zip code and see what the average salary is for an audiologist in your area.
And America Hears may have provided that gentleman a "free" programming or whatever, but that audiologist is being employeed by a larger company. What would you say if the audiologists at America Hears $150k for never even seeing the person? In actuality they have a pretty sweet gig- they don't have to see anyone, they don't have to do the testing, they don't actually sell the aids and they get paid.
Seriously why does it matter what audiologists get paid? Actors get paid 20 million dollars per film (3 months of work)- does it seem fair that they get that much for doing their jobs? It is all relative.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by pennam on Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:56 am
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Lou writes "Ed, you didnt think for a second they were going to admit to that. Im waiting for a repost from audball that audis make 40K."
Lou, I'm confused. Who is refusing to admit what?? This thread started a long time ago when ed posted part of an article about Audiologist's salaries. He mistakenly only posted the part about the Audiologists making the most money. He apologized for the misleading post and thats it. I think you are reading into something that isn't there.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:05 pm
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Can cops in general even read? Cut Lou some slack, he is an exception to the rule.
Auds do commonly make 40K in certain areas in America, and commonly make that kind of coin out of college, with a doctorate degree!
Might as well majored in English for that matter.
To HearMe:
I imagine what people take exception to, is the thought of anyone makeing money off of a physical impairment or illness is rather distasteful. Not to mention, in most cases there is no cure, just pills, a smile, mixed in with a fained careing attitude, and a limp handshake.
It is cruel when you think about it.... but it is a fact of life.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by michaelg on Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:15 pm
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AudBall wrote
>
> I imagine what people take exception to, is the thought of anyone makeing money off of a physical impairment or illness is rather distasteful. Not to mention, in most cases there is no cure, just pills, a smile, mixed in with a fained careing attitude, and a limp handshake.
>
Could be in the past (my experience anyway) that HOH took exception to someone making quite a bit of money and delivering a flawed product (as well as obviously overpriced) and frustration generating service. Now with the open fits, the overall satisfaction rate has probably gone up but I wonder where the satisfaction rate presently stands for severe and worse losses.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:08 pm
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Well lets analyze this.... Open fits increase satisfaction, assumed because it decreases the occlusion effect, those with sever + losses, in general, do not suffer from the occlussion effect so that can not be a complaint. So if they never had the occlusion effect as a complain in the first place I would vernture to say they never had much to complain about in the first place. Also, because of todays robust feedback control systems that is less of an issue, looser more comfortable ear molds can be used. Deep fitting ear molds are also a thing of the past. So again I would venture to say those with sever + losses would logically be more satisfied.
My experience with the severrley impaired is usually positive, because they are grateful for any help that they can get.
But of course this all comes at price.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by Lou on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 am
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Great Post ed...and they want to keep you hostage in their office by making you prepay for services most never get...Thats why Im an american hears customer and will remain so as long their hearing aids work for me...and so far they have been fantastic...without all the audi extras costs...
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by Lou on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:25 am
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Ed remember all the audi posts on here about how they only make 40k a yr or less....and the HOH responses to that were..go find a real job then...we knew it was bogus then and we know it now...
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Subject : Work At Home
posted by sk.techyolk on Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:45 am
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Subject : Re: Work At Home
posted by ed121 on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:39 pm
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Please do not post commercial msgs on this site. It violates our rules.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by audiTT on Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:53 pm
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I know a lot of audiologists and no audiologist I know makes $150k.
I'll be completely honest here, I make $65K a year, and I work in the bay
area of California. I just read an article in the paper today that said the
average family needs to make $77K to be able to afford the basic needs
of life in this area. Luckily, my husband makes a good salary so we're
able to afford to live here. Ironically, he makes a better salary with only
a high school diploma than I do with my masters degree. Go figure. In
case anyone is wondering, I work full time as a dispensing audiologist in
a hospital setting, and I do not make commission on sales.
My first year out of grad school, I make $27K. I had to get two other
jobs to make ends meet. It took me three years to break the $40K mark
and I've slowly worked up from there.
I take pride in my work, and I like what I do, but I know darn well I could
make a lot more money in another field. The vast, vast majority of
audiologists do not make the salaries that people think they do. Again,
if it weren't for my husband's salaries, I'd barely be scraping by.
I do feel for my patients who cannot afford the high prices of hearing
aids, but when people perpetuate the lie that the prices are high because
of the audiologists, it really makes me frustrated. I work damn hard for
my salary, and I deserve it.
The people that make the salaries posted in the original post are
definately the small minority. They're probably the big names in the
field, the ones who get a lot of extra compensation for research,
seminars, or speaking engagements. They're not the ones out there
every day dealing with the frustrations of trying to fit less than perfect
hearing aids to a very demanding population.
Give us a break. We're on your side. We're trying to help you, we're not
out to get you.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:02 am
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About 15 years a go, audiologist out of college were expected to work for free for the first 9-12 months duiring their CFY time. Imagine the costs mounting during that time.
Then the concept of a "living wage" was created, and audiologist like AudiTT and many others earned around 30K for a while... up until they get fed up and leave for more money.
Many outfits are content on running a revolving door, hireing saplings, milking them for their degrees, licenses etc, then they get fed up and go to another location.... and the process starts over again. There is rarely a carrer ladder, so one can not rely on increased income over time etc.
Audiology on paper is really a dismal carrer when the reality sets in. It is a allied medical proffession that has been in exsistance longer than many other allied medical proffessions that have been recognized by third party payment systms ie insurance etc. Audiology has been stuck in a rut since its inception.
If anyone has been hood winked it is the audiologist.... is there a 30 day return policy on their education? Nope I don't think so.
I feel for the folks struggling now, to pay off their 100K tution dept with the funds generated from the tip jar.
I could go on, but why bother.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by zafdor on Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:55 am
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Do you know any who run a private practice? Taking the risk to go out on your own will make a big difference, can be either way :-). Hospitals are particularly interesting from a bugetary perspective as there are huge black holes sucking money that must be paid for (potentially from profits on your services).
I have two friends who are mechinics. The BMW mechanic is billed at $100/hour by the dealer and takes home ~$40K/year. The other is an independent who bills at $70/hour and grosses into 6 figures.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:34 am
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Grossing 6 figures is no big deal, it is the net that matters. In fact it would take an audilogist to gross in the six figure range in order to earn, take home etc 40K.
Your covert recommendation to lower prices in order to make more money... kinda of a blame shift. But here is the deal several issues. Audis do not have the ability to bill directly to insurance companies for diagnostic procedures. So essentially if an audiologist wants to be independent from an ENT, the option is hearing aids... Wow Wee, that to me is a sentence more than anything. But if one was to be strictly in the hearing aid busines my advise is to form your own hearing aid company and sub contract out the assembly. Offer the major brands (which also supply you with the parts/pre-wire kits etc) and allow your clients to decide which they want, a generic private label or the big ticket product that is the same as your generic.
I also found joining with a buyers group to be benificial in driving down prices too. There are a lot of options. But in most cases, despite the many different manuevers, audiologist just do not make a lot of money.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:35 am
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Reap the whirlwind of the unintended consequences of well meaning, but basically flawed, government regulations. Ed = Ed121
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by kacey on Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:28 am
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AudBall wrote:
> Dental Hygenist, with their 2 years post HS diploma associate degree make as much as audiologist that have spen 8 years in college & around 100K in tuition.
>
> Then you have the hearing aid dealers that make as much as if not more than Audiologist without any official college at all.
>
> Whew... when one looks at the dollars and cents regarding audiology..... wow, it is the wrong way to go.
Hey I have friends who has spent upwards of $175,000 for their offspring's Swarthmore Degree - only to find said child back living with momma and daddy and having a tough time in the job market.
Good people rise to the top and lucky people have a tendency to work just a bit harder than the rest. There are no guarantees as to salary from any high ed degree.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by AudBall on Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:56 pm
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Kacey,
Yes & NO
A college degree for many people is a form of investment. Any time a person invests, they want to know in advance the degree of risk, the possible pay off etc.
I contend, that if potential students know in advanced, that the "cream rises to the top" and that cream is around 2% out of the profession earning a sallary that is actually commensurate to the time spent and tuition fee paid they will not enroll in audiology. Frankly, I can't blame them.
ENTs will have to rely on folks with zero training to do their diagnostic work, and the public will have to rely on that work for their health care.... Wish them luck, their going to need it.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by audiojill on Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:16 pm
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I have read this data also and I have to tell you that it gives an overly optimistic view. This probably refers to audiologists who own private practices or who work for manufacturers. I'm a doctoral level audiologist and can tell you we make more in the range of $40,000 (in lower cost parts of the country) to $80,000 in big cities. There may be some experienced audiologists in big cities making 6 figures but they are probably the exception rather than the norm. And please remember...if you see an audiologist, most of us have 4 years of education beyond our undergraduate experience. We are highly trained health care professionals. Whatever you do...always see an audiologist and not a hearing aid dispensor.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by zafdor on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:53 am
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You need only read the title and first few paragraphs to figure out why there is a lot of angst (at least here) towards audies and it also gives good insite as to why healthcare is so broken in the US. What arrogance to infer from a title that your goal is to propagate your profession. The authors of this paper should hang their heads in shame. Drug companies and (malpractice) lawyers take a lot of fire for the broken US medical system, in reality it is the AMA at the root of our problems!
How about providing maximum value to your clients? Hows that for a goal for the audiology profession? It works for my profession!
Edwincnelson wrote:
>
> http://audiologist.org/pages/about/docs/ada_position.pdf
>
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by Sams on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:32 pm
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Let's also talk about the 50% of VA audiologists who are too busy to program the hearing aids. They have the manufacturer pre-program the hearing aids so they can send our wonderful vets on their way. A lot of them don't even know how to use the fitting software. God forbid if something goes wrong with the hearing aid. The poor vet has to go back to the cold-hearted audiologist who is too busy to see them in the first place to get the hearing aid fixed. I know the VA is busy but I don't buy the excuses.
I am not a dispenser. Lets just say I use to talk to both sides for many years on the phone. Both sides have their good people and bad people. If I was looking to buy hearing aids, I would take experience over education any day. I think audiologists have a hard time thinking out of the box. If a problem comes up and they tried everything in the text box, they get lost and frustrated and blame the hearing aid.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by glucas on Sat Nov 1, 2008 4:03 am
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I can respect that audiologists are well qualified, work hard and deserve a good living.
This is no problem.
However, hearing aids are just too expensive.
5 years ago I bought ITC Phonak Perseo 23Daz hearing aids at a cost of approximately £2200 uk pounds (approx $3500 dollars). Due to reliability issues and wanting to try newer technology, I bought a pair of Phonak BTE Savia Art hearing aids for approximately £2000 uk pounds (approx $3232 dollars). These figures would have been higher in american dollars at the time, but the UK pound has now weakened.
The point is, that now, Phonak have brought out at least 4 new ranges since the Savia Art - Audeo, Cetana, Versata and the newest - Exelia.
I will have to fork out another £2000 at least to get any of these aids.
In the space of 7 years approximately $12, 000 of expenditure on hearing aids with the technology moving so fast.
This is almost as much as I'm paying for my car !
It's ok for the likes of all these manufacturers to bring out these hearing aids to attract new customers as they are getting good satisfaction ratings, but it seems to me that somebody is just pocketing the profits, as the prices are not coming down, as you would expect with increased volumes of sales. Another thing I don't understand is why the hearing aid platforms are not upgradeable, so as new software algorithms come on board, the aid can be upgraded.
Compare to other technological devices that I use, mobile, Ipod, camera, TV etc... hearing aids make me want to weep.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by ed121 on Sat Nov 1, 2008 6:10 am
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Weep no more. Over the next few years changes are on the way.
As long as the hearing aid industry and distribution sticks to the quasi-medical paradigm prices are going to be high.
Miniature audio amplifiers/sound conditioners (hearing aids) could be sold over-the-counter for about a third (or less) of the current prices. Ed
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by TrueBrit on Sun Nov 2, 2008 2:51 am
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hi,
The Savia ART is a good aid, so perhaps you won't get too much benefit from upgrading ... unless you urgently need Bluetooth.
Also, you paid quite a good price for the ARTS .. some dispensers would have charged 2 or 3 times that amount.
Don't worry about the Audeo: it's simply a repackaged ART.
As for the 'sales volume' point: a new platform is a new chip ... so a lot of money has been spent between aid 'generations'. Aids don't sell in huge quantities ... but these sales will be needed to fund that work.
As for the 'downloadable upgrade' point: each chip has a certain amount of program memory. This is probably 95% full already ... with maybe a tiny bit of free space to allow bug fixes to be downloaded. So where are any new features going to be downloaded into?
Yes, aids ARE too expensive ... but even if they were $1 each you would still need to pay for the fitting etc .. which you do NOT need to do with an iPod.
The fitting service etc is STILL going to cost a few $100 minimum.
Hopefully the $8000 pair of hearing aids will fade away ... but I doubt we will ever reach $20 for a pair of fitted aids!
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by glucas on Sun Nov 2, 2008 1:52 pm
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hi,
>The Savia ART is a good aid, so perhaps you won't get too >much benefit from upgrading ... unless you urgently need >Bluetooth.
Thanks for this. Very useful info.
>Also, you paid quite a good price for the ARTS .. some >dispensers would have charged 2 or 3 times that amount.
Yes. I did pay a good price. The point I was making that in order to keep up with technology developments, I would have to buy hearing aids every 2 years, and even with the good price I got, I would be unable to afford repeat purchases.
>Don't worry about the Audeo: it's simply a repackaged ART.
Thanks for the advice.
>As for the 'sales volume' point: a new platform is a new >chip ... so a lot of money has been spent between >aid 'generations'. Aids don't sell in huge quantities ... but >these sales will be needed to fund that work.
ok
>As for the 'downloadable upgrade' point: each chip has a >certain amount of program memory. This is probably 95% >full already ... with maybe a tiny bit of free space to allow >bug fixes to be downloaded. So where are any new features >going to be downloaded into?
Then change the architecture and make it open platform.
>Yes, aids ARE too expensive ... but even if they were $1 >each you would still need to pay for the fitting etc .. which >you do NOT need to do with an iPod.
Sure. But a fitting doesn't cost £2000 pounds. I don't mind paying up to £200 for a fitting provided the instrument cost can be halved or quartered.
>The fitting service etc is STILL going to cost a few $100 >minimum.
>Hopefully the $8000 pair of hearing aids will fade away ... >but I doubt we will ever reach $20 for a pair of fitted aids!
Not asking for $20 dollar aids. I think the industry is missing a trick. As a hearing aid consumer who needs hearing aids and wants to keep up with the latest technology, I am willing to apportion a certain amount of my budget, every year, to my well being, which is essential to my career and family life. I would like to see a lifelong programme whereby I would put a certain amount in, and receive up to the minute updates in technology. The industry would get my continuous funding, instead of having to rely on new customers alone. This type of approach is not there, and in my view the industry is losing money because it does not lock the consumer into this type of deal. If Phonak, or Widex, or any other vendor was to come to me with a lease scheme that cost say, $1500 dollars a year, and in return I would receive new hearing aids every year, I would be delighted. If they did this, they would actually be getting more money from me. As it is, I'm giving them less than this because I feel I'm being ripped off and can't afford it.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by MarkSteele on Mon Nov 3, 2008 5:35 pm
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I strongly disagree.Much if not most of that education is not applicable to hearing aids.Your profession did not become a profession that was financed by hearing aid sales.For those who view the cost of an education to be a financial investment,and/or an advanced degree to be an entitlement.Remember,for the most part, you are still retailing someone elses product that is still basically nothing more than a sound amplifier.Audiology should have stayed within the medical/diagnostic realm.Not mixed into hearing aid sales,nor the rationalization for current hearing-aid costs and services.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by SaraAuD on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:25 pm
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Strangely enough when I worked for an ENT practice 4 years ago I made $30k. With a PhD and getting my AuD. I dispensed alot of hearing aids and made no profit on them, however each particular ENT who recommended the aids to the patient made the profit.
4 years later I practice as a pediatric pracitioner and make $80K at University hospital. I do not even work in the same dept as the ENTs and answer only to an AuD who also is the boss of many other practitioner's departments.
Seems to me the ENTs are artifically depressing the salaries.
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by kooch on Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:23 pm
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SaraAuD wrote:
> ...when I worked for an ENT practice 4 years ago I made $30k. With a PhD and getting my AuD. ...
A confusing post. Am I incorrect in assuming the PhD isn't in Audiology? If it's in Art History, or PoliSci, or some similar discipline, then it would be irrelevant, wouldn't it?
Were you in a temporary employment offered to students, working under the close supervision and control of a licensed medical professional, like an ENT? I understand that type of assistance is available in some states. Did you first have to obtain a state dispenser's license?
You're circumstances are certainly unique. I've never before heard of anyone with an academic doctorate (PhD) subsequently working towards a distance-learning degree (AuD). Good luck...
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by SaraAuD on Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:27 pm
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kooch wrote:
> A confusing post. Am I incorrect in assuming the PhD isn't in Audiology? If it's in Art History, or PoliSci, or some similar discipline, then it would be irrelevant, wouldn't it?
>
> Were you in a temporary employment offered to students, working under the close supervision and control of a licensed medical professional, like an ENT? I understand that type of assistance is available in some states. Did you first have to obtain a state dispenser's license?
>
> You're circumstances are certainly unique. I've never before heard of anyone with an academic doctorate (PhD) subsequently working towards a distance-learning degree (AuD). Good luck...
--
No, I had a master's and a PhD, both in Audiology. I also chose to return for a AuD because the PhD was more research based. Many people have PhD/AuD in Audiology.
I was not a student. I was a licensed audiologist and did not require a separate license to sell hearing aids due to the state I lived in. Of course, I wasn't under the supervision of an ENT because no Audiologist is required to be supervised by an ENT at any time of their career.
I was, however, young and female and this was my first job. The ENTs screwed me over in regards to pay. However the ENT who initially hired me was fired by his partners due to several lawsuits of sexual harassment being placed against him.
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Subject : Re: Requirements for Medical Evaluations
posted by kooch on Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:49 pm
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Posted by SaraAuD:
> Many people have PhD/AuD in Audiology.
I suspect you’re being modest. I’ve never before heard of such a combination, especially when the PhD was conferred first…
Such a combination of credentials does not make a lot of sense in my state, as neither PhD nor AuD credentials qualify a person to perform medical evaluations. Need to be a licensed medical professional – i.e., a medical doctor (MD). One reason for ENTs…
Here, medical doctors request hearing tests from audiologists as part of a medical evaluation, and provide signed referrals the audiologist uses to validate insurance reimbursement claims.
A HOH can avoid a medical evaluation, but to do so (s)he must provide the testing audiologist with a written waiver of his/her rights to a medical evaluation. And unfortunately, many health insurance companies do not reimburse claimants for hearing testing charges that are not a part of a medical evaluation.
My state’s audiology licensing agency puts all this information in a small brochure which practicing audiologists are legally required to explain to HOH who have never had a medical evaluation. Doesn’t your state have similar regulations?
k
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Subject : Re: Actual Audiologists Salary and Income
posted by sonja on Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:53 pm
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i agree with the previous comment, i dont care what the audi's make. i
feel people have a choice in who they decide to get their care from, and
are able to do their own research on that person/business.
i was fortunate to find and audi who has spent considerable time with
me for no charge, she is compassionate and understanding. this post
kind of generalizes them to be "greedy" at the expense of our hearing
loss, but i feel they did the work to get into a well-paying field, and
obviously we all need them in one way or another.
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Hard of Hearing Advocates 245 Prospect Street, Framingham MA 01701
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